The difference between America’s view of Nazis and Marixst-Leninists is pretty staggering. On one hand, you have a brutal regime that committed genocide and other atrocious acts. On the other hand, you have a secretive country that in the time span of just one man’s rule, over 20 million people were slaughtered. Why does America, as a whole, think of Soviets in a better light?
It’s pretty easy to say that Americans hate Nazis. Nazism is not an acceptable ideology to espouse in America, ostracism is a more likely response than acceptance. Antifa, for example, is an entire organisation devoted solely to the eradication of fascism in America. If one were to ask the average American what their view of Nazism was, they would speak of disgust and hate. They’re justified in their beliefs, the Nazis committed atrocious acts of hate throughout their reign of terror.
The Soviets, on the other hand, killed a far greater number of people. While roughly 6 million people were murdered in the Holocaust, over 20 million were killed in Stalin’s death camps. Although the aim of Stalin’s camps wasn’t genocide, they certainly weren’t solely dedicated to killing dissidents. Stalin, when he came to power, recriminalized homosexuality, annihilated any sign of religious practice throughout the country, deported ethnic minorities, the list goes on and on. However, America strangely has a different view of Marxism-Leninism than Nazism. There are a large number of socialist groups throughout the country, from youth groups to political parties. This isn’t something new, either. Socialism has long been thought of as a legitimate alternative to capitalism since it came to light. It’s just as Micheal Burawoy said, “Curiously, Marxism keeps on returning, a corpse that is always being brought back to life. Every generation digs up its own Marx.” (Marxism After Communism, Michael Burawoy). While Marxism has a massive number of branches and Marxism-Leninism is just one small part of the whole tree, it’s easy to understand what he’s trying to say. Socialism, as an idea, is clearly still in circulation as an alternative to the capitalist system, while fascism seems to be just a relic of times past.
The question remains, why is Socialism, a system that killed millions of people, constantly being resuscitated, while Nazism is thought of a hateful system that (hopefully) will never come about again? The answer is simple-war. We fought an actual war against the Nazis, we had men fighting on the front lines against their ideas. While we had Vietnam and Korea (among other proxy wars), we never had an official war against the Soviets. Not to mention the fact that in both Korea and Vietnam we were fighting more against the Chinese than the Soviets. Nazism is thought of as an evil system, one that can only produce hate and death because we fought a war against it. World War 2 shaped America’s view of morality.
This was so interesting to read! It’s a comparison I’ve never considered before but actually brings up some excellent points. I read a little bit more on this and found an article that discussed that “quantity versus quality” has kind of set the rules for how Americans’ memory of the two is shaped. Something else I started thinking about, which you also touched upon, is that the motivations of the Soviet Union were not so far from those of the Nazis (relating to race and ethnicity).
But I wonder if the way Americans (and perhaps the rest of the world sees them) comes down to their perceived intent (or nature), rather than the wars fought against them. Hitler really came to power with the intention of eliminating the Jews from Europe, whereas the Soviet Union’s killing seemed to be related to this ideological view of modernization.
I know both were horrifying regimes, but there is something that seems more perverse about the Nazi regime, at least from a surface-level point of view.
And in regard to war shaping our morality – yes, Americans did fight a more direct war with Nazi Germany, but did they not fight a far more terrifying one with the Soviets? What comes to mind really is the Red Scare and McCarthyism. On the same note, the stunning focus the media placed during that period on the crimes of the Soviets was fairly shocking, especially considering the things the United States was doing to many socialist-leaning countries in Latin America. I think an argument could be made for the fact that media ignored a lot of American crimes to focus on those of Soviet Russia. I know this isn’t the argument you’re making, but I think it shows the insistence the media and those in power had to show the Soviet Union in a bad light (which was to an extent deserved).
And I wonder if the resurgence of socialism isn’t just because as we become disillusioned with capitalism, we look to turn to alternatives? And socialism seems like a potential remedy (thinking of 2008)?
As you can probably tell this really got me thinking – you’ve raised a fascinating comparison. (:
Hi Luke, interesting article! I’ve got a points to make in response…
I’ll start off with a few small things – although America was fighting China rather than the Soviets during the Vietnam war, China still very much considered itself communist during the Cold War (it sorta still does, although it’s debatable whether China in its current state truly functions as a socialist nation). In fact, it was one of the central entities of the Eastern Bloc that the US was trying so hard to contain, in part through proxy wars such as the Vietnam War. China even broke away from the USSR because it thought the Soviets weren’t communist *enough* (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Soviet_split).
That sorta leads into my second point, which is that, although I am not from the US and I don’t know many people who are, I’ve always had the impression that Americans didn’t really like socialism. The US and USSR did fight an entire Cold War, albeit not directly. There was huge amounts of anti-communist propaganda circulating during the 1950s and the peak of McCarthyism – the US pretty much defined itself by its opposition to socialism of all kinds and stalwart adherence to capitalism, and that legacy still has its impact today. So while Nazism certainly isn’t fondly remembered in the US, I’m not sure communism is much preferred. WW2 might have taught Americans to (rightfully) condemn Nazism, but the Cold War did have a profound impact on American views of socialism.
As promised though, those were the small things – here’s my main response (yeah, there’s more. Sorry for the wall of text XD).
I would say that the main reason Nazism is condemned and socialism continues to be represented in contemporary politics is because the fundamental guiding principles of each ideology are different, and that the latter still has relevance today.
Nazism is a far-right, authoritarian ideology that encompasses not just any old kind of xenophobia, but open and extreme antisemitism (and in general discrimination towards social demographics not considered “pure” – the disabled, Jehovah’s Witnesses, you name it). The reason why Nazism hasn’t seen (and hopefully will never see) a large-scale revival is because it contains, at its core, beliefs that lead directly to violent and widespread discrimination. Nazis are antisemites. Nazis are white supremacists. There is no alternative.
Socialism doesn’t even come remotely close to Nazism in this regard. Socialism is an umbrella term for a wide range of social systems that are about collective (as opposed to private) ownership of the means of production and moving on from the inherent class conflict of capitalism. Nothing about the fundamentals of socialism implies the slaughter of millions or inherent jingoism leading to violent racism, so condemning all streams of socialist thought as a whole for the tragedy of Marxism-Leninism doesn’t really make a lot of sense. You yourself say that “Marxism has a massive number of branches and Marxism-Leninism is just one small part of the whole tree”, so why condemn the very idea of socialism for the slaughter of 20 millions under Stalin’s USSR? It was a very unfortunate application of socialism, yes, but there are any number of different ways of executing socialism that don’t inherently involve massive police states and violations of human rights, whereas *every* application of Nazism will include both those elements and more. That is why Nazism is no longer part of the conversation.
Furthermore, socialist principles do have useful lessons for us in the developed world. The deficits of late-stage capitalism are pretty clear at this point – unchecked environmental damage, exploitation of less developed countries, and an inability to see that this harm is being done (etc.). The profit motive, central to capitalism, does an alright job of making human life better, but at its root does not seek to do so. Capitalism is not about making lives better. It is about profit. In that context, it is wise to look through other streams of sociological thought to see what we can do to make human life more equitable, and socialism is a part of that journey. The slaughter of 20 million by the Soviets was, again, a tragedy, but that doesn’t mean that every form of socialism involves mass murder, or that there is no form of socialism that we can learn from today. The same is not true of Nazism. The continued relevance of socialism compared to Nazism is more a natural consequence of its central principles, rather than that Americans fought a war against the Nazis and not the Communists (who they did in fact fight, in many different ways, in many parts of the world).
Angus
Nazism may be built on intolerable principles, but fascism is not so clearly intolerable. Fascism is about a nationalist population under a heavy-handed government. People today find many fascist policies tolerable enough to vote for. One could argue that any bigoted, genocidal or eugenic side effects are the result of poor implementation of it, in the same way Marxists argue the USSR didn’t achieve true communism. If you take any political ideology far enough, you’ll get bloodshed. Marx posited a violent revolution as the best course of action, and the extremist extension of that involves decapitating (or eating) the bourgeoisie. That would be intolerable to a considerable portion of society, particularly vegans.
This was a really interesting post!! My commentary is somewhat similar to Angus’s in that I disagree with the statement: “The question remains, why is Socialism, a system that killed millions of people, constantly being resuscitated, while Nazism is thought of a hateful system that (hopefully) will never come about again? The answer is simple-war.” Whilst I’d agree that Nazism and the Soviet union under Stalin can be placed alongside one another, I’d argue that it is slightly more difficult to draw such comparisons between the ideologies of Nazism and socialism.
My counter-argument would be that the Nazism was derived from Fascism, which is by nature authoritarian, and involves militant and regimented control of society and the government. Fascism is distinguished by the complete irradiation or separation of an “other” which when practiced on a large scale is no doubt going to result in extreme division and prejudice, and in worst case scenarios, genocide as we see with the Nazis. I guess I’m arguing that violence is inherent to fascism due to its very nature, whereas, violence is not at all inherent to socialism. As you and Angus acknowledge, socialism was used as the means to cause devastation in the case of Stalin; however, this is not due to an inherent divisiveness caused by socialism. The very nature of socialism is ideas of collectivism, as opposed to divisiveness. Collectivism can work, divisiveness, in my opinion, can never work.
Another reason perhaps that America, and other democratic countries, so strongly reject nazism/fascism is due to its failure to accept any degree of democracy or pluralism due to the totalitarian nature. Despite the cold war/red scare creating the sense that where communism was, democracy failed, socialism has been seen to co-exist with democracy (https://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/democratic-socialist-countries/) This fear was also largely a byproduct of American propaganda against Russia, a threat which never materialised in America, unlike the Nazi threat which was globally pervasive and; thus, left a much larger mark.
So my answer to the question of why socialism is ‘forgiven’ whilst nazism is not, is that despite both causing devastation in the past, devastation is only inherent in fascism; thus, resulting in a visceral fear of fascism.
I agree with you on the idea that often anyone you ask will answer “Nazi’s” when asked about the worst historical political party and that many view Hitler as worse than Stalin despite the staggering numbers of his own people that Stalin killed. However, I think there is an essential difference between a despotic leader who uses ideology to gain power and the ideology being inherently evil. Stalin always manipulated and tricked people into rising in ranks and becoming the sole leader. It was not socialism and more Stalin’s paranoia wanting to keep control and maintain his power that caused the deaths of over 20 million people. He also committed genocide when he weaponised food and created the Holodomor in Soviet Ukraine. He also removed non-ethnic Russians even though he was Georgian – similar to how Hilter was Austrian and yet wanted a pure Aryan German race. There are many similarities between European dictators during this time. Stalin is not associated with genocide or hate as he was, and still is in some areas, seen as a father figure who helped the USSR grow and expand out of its agrarian state and into a global superpower. I’m not saying it is right or fair, but people are taught that Hitler’s regime is one of the worst and they never think to question it.
I also think there is an important distinction between Socialism, Communism and Marxism-Leninism. Lenin also changed Marx’s original ideas to suit himself and Stalin attempted to follow on from Lenin’s work in order to seem like the natural next leader of Russia, this was not about Stalin’s belief but his manipulation of the people who loved Lenin and saw his as a god-like figure. He knew that if he preached Leninism he would gain power. Communism differs in that it requires a violent overthrowing of the Bourgeiousie by the proletariat who would then rule until absolute Communism could be established. Socialism is just a stepping stone to Communism according to Marx.
I think that Social Democracy is popular but that this has nothing to do with the actions of a paranoid Georgian with a superiority complex.
Hi Luke, you’ve presented an interesting take on the divide in American moral standards, and one that I feel is always going to be relevant to consider.
I’d like to to pick up on one strand of your discussion; the idea that Nazism was completely contra the American way of life, or at least their moral beliefs. In the wake of an increasingly strong ramping up of political discourse, policy and violence against Jews emerging from Germany, one would think that given the classic Christian values of ‘love thy neighbour as thyself’ and ‘Do unto others as you would have them do unto you’, that the Americans would have no qualms providing support to Jewish refugees, and certainly defend them from persecution at home. In fact, according to many polls at the time, whilst the American people condemned the actions taken by the Nazis on Kristallnacht, only as few as 21% would accept Jewish refugees into the USA, and many continued to support American anti-semitic parties (https://news.gallup.com/opinion/polling-matters/232949/american-public-opinion-holocaust.aspx). Before Hitler’s rise to power in Germany many heavily anti-semitic restrictions on immigration were passed (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_antisemitism_in_the_United_States#Discrimination_in_education_and_professions), and top businessman Henry Ford was mentioned positively by name in ‘Mein Kampf’.
The purpose of all this is to say that it would not be fully correct to say that Nazism is not espoused at all in America, as there is most certainly historical precedent for it being done so, especially given the prominence of the Ku Klux Klan and related organisations. Furthermore, while the anti-semitic elements of Nazism might be considered taboo in modern American society, the heavily militaristic, nationalistic and populist elements are most definitely here to stay, as evident from Donald Trump and his ilk.
James
Sources:
https://news.gallup.com/opinion/polling-matters/232949/american-public-opinion-holocaust.aspx
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_antisemitism_in_the_United_States#Discrimination_in_education_and_professions
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2018/10/americas-long-history-anti-semitism/574234/
Lacey, Robert (1986). Ford. pp. 218–219.; which in turn cites:
“The Poor Mr Ford”. Josephine Fellows Gomon Papers. draft manuscript. Box 10. Bentley Historical Library.